For the record, in the 1940 edition of the Harp of God (first published in 1921). Starting on page 234 in the Our Lord's Return chapter, you will find they still had the "old" chronology. With 1799 as the beginning of the time of the end, 606 BCE as the beginning of the Gentile Times, and 1874 marking the beginning of Christ's presence.
Ultimate Reality
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Reality
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Christ presence started in 1914: Acknowledge since 1925?
by Nick! inchrist presence started in 1914: acknowledged since 1925?.
according to the second wt article in the march 15th edition of this year, paragraph 4 states that (translation) jehovahs witnesses recognize since 1925 that the first world war and the events which followed, constitute a clear evidence that christ presence in his heavenly kingdom started in 1914.. could someone kindly scan the english version of the above article and post-it online?.
it is the first time, at least personally, that i read such a statement in a wt literature.. according to the book captive of a concept by don cameron, chapter 3 page 22-23, the first time the wt recognized that christs presence happened in 1914, was only in 1943.. how is it possible that this article of 2009 points to the year 1925 as the time when the jw first recognized the true event associated with 1914?.
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Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!
by Ultimate Reality inwith the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.
therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.
7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?
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Ultimate Reality
yadda yadda: Listening to the June 15 article on jw.org and looking at the context of the articles since 2007, it appears the Governing Body itself is moving to become the The Faithful Slave or Steward.
The WT uses conflicting terms simultaneously in these articles, such as from the February 15 article:
"Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave."
Is the slave, slave class, and the faithful and discreet slave all the same thing? In these sentences it would seem so. But we know that really isn't the case. The scripture in Matthew 24:45 makes more sense (based on the Society's interpretation that this is a prophecy) if the slave or steward is the Governing Body. But they have never come out directly and said this. The slave was always a group of anointed ones and the GB was their representative. The change that is taking place is to elevate the GB. This makes more sense based on the wording of Matthew, the reality of how the organization is run, and most importantly, the increase in memorial partakers. The GB wants to distance itself and diminish the role of the newly claimed anointed ones.
My point is ultimately speculative, but keep a look out in the WT articles in the coming months.
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Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!
by Ultimate Reality inwith the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.
therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.
7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?
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Ultimate Reality
It's all a word game. Historically, the Faithful and Discreet Slave is a composite group of anointed ones. Individually they are "domestics", as a whole they make up a class, and as a class they "feed" each other in the household. They have a representative, in the form of the Governing Body, which takes the lead in providing the "food" for the household.
Of course, in practice, this has never really operated this way. The top of of the organization (be it the office of the president or GB) determines policy and doctrine.
However, there is a subtle shift taking place. A shift that diminishes the position of all those that claim to be anointed and further elevates members of the Governing Body. Some of this they have brought upon themselves. The 1935 claim that the Great Crowd ingathering started and the ranks of the 144,000 were filled, could no longer be sustained with the passing of time. This had unintended consequences, with the memorial partakers increasing, probably to over 10,000 this year.
Now, they have been forced to act (in print at least) in order to reinforce and maintain the perception of concentrated authority in the hands of 9 men. I have never seen articles before that move to solidify the Governing Body as the actual "Slave" of their Matthew interpretation; it appears to be a growing underlying theme with the introduction of the Study Edition Watchtowers. This may be a significant move to the far-right. They are decaying from within with massive turn-over, they have a brain-drain, 2014 is closing, and the evil internet is exposing their true history. Some of the old guys may have backed off after the early 1980's and had some conscience about promoting their role after the 1975 and RV Franz debacles. But now (except for two) the GB is all new, have no direct knowledge of the issues of the 1970's, have no link to the 1914 era, and they think they are on a mission from God.
Ignorance and hubris is a dangerous combination.
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Who really is the slave? The Governing Body!!!
by Ultimate Reality inwith the june 15th article (on jw.org) about the slave and governing body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the slave from the domestics.
therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes.
7:9;john 10:16) should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them?
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Ultimate Reality
With the June 15th article (on jw.org) about the Slave and Governing Body, we can see the planned progression of breaking the Slave from the Domestics. Therefore, lumping the claimed-anointed and the great crowd in the same group for all intents and purposes. Now that the individual anointed members have "no special insight" according to the 2008 revisions, the 2009 revisions are taking what we already know about the GB and putting it in print.
In typical fashion, the WT changes these "absolute truths" by redefining certain terms, then causing general confusion, and lastly coming to the rescue with clarification. Usually over a period of months.
Interestingly, what I missed on this topic recently, was paragraph three from the February 15, 2009 Watchtower in the article They "Keep Following The Lamb".
Notice the highlighted portion:
3 Jesus has appointed the faithful and discreet slave "over his domestics," that is, the individual members of the slave class, "to give them their food at the proper time." He has also appointed the-slave "over all his belongings." (Matt. 24:45-47) These "belongings"include the growing "great crowd" of "other sheep." (Rev. 7:9;John 10:16) Should not individual members of the anointed and the "other sheep" trust the slave appointed over them? There are many reasons why the slave class deserves our trust. Two outstanding reasons are: (1) Jehovah trusts the slave class. (2) Jesus also trusts the slave. Let us examine the evidence that both Jehovah God and Jesus Christ have complete confidence in the faithful and discreet slave.
The statement and question confuses the traditional identity of the parties. Historically the slave is a composite group (with it's GB representative). But this question assumes the Slave is over the anointed and the other sheep. Perhaps by 2010 a Question From Readers will explicitly identify the Governing Body, from the 1st century to today, as being the actual Faithful and Discreet Slave?
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2009 Special Talk Outline
by OnlyTruth inis there a true religion from gods standpoint?.
note to the speaker:.
standpoint.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 03-29-09 WT Study (APPROVED SERVANT)
by blondie in*** w07 3/1 p. 29 par.
*** w07 4/1 p. 23 par.
*** w07 6/1 p. 29 par.
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Ultimate Reality
Thank you for your efforts and "public service", Blondie. These articles help keep some of us up to date on what our family members are ingesting and they provide a valuable service to lurkers in helping them to think critically about Watchtower teachings.
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WT to entirely shut down Brooklyn soon? New developments
by sir82 inone thread already started on this, although you may have missed it since the topic title is not so descriptive: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/173227/1/moving-sale.
here is a news article on it:.
http://www.lohud.com/article/20090326/news03/903260466.
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Change in Regular Pioneer application process
by Ultimate Reality inthis week a letter is being read that changes the process for the approval of regular pioneers.
in times past you had to fill out an application, submit it to the elder body (who would then add their comments), and it would be forwarded to "the branch" for approval.. this is being changed so that the elder body grants the approval instead of brooklyn or the local branch.
it looks like the lawyers are removing any and all direct contact between the rank-and-file and the gb.
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Ultimate Reality
In the words of Princess Leia: "The more you tighten your grip...the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
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Change in Regular Pioneer application process
by Ultimate Reality inthis week a letter is being read that changes the process for the approval of regular pioneers.
in times past you had to fill out an application, submit it to the elder body (who would then add their comments), and it would be forwarded to "the branch" for approval.. this is being changed so that the elder body grants the approval instead of brooklyn or the local branch.
it looks like the lawyers are removing any and all direct contact between the rank-and-file and the gb.
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Ultimate Reality
Lulu: I know of situations where the branch and the applicant have had disagreements on the applicant's suitability. These applications are not rubber stamped. If there is something in your file in Brooklyn, they can deny your application. You also don't have any transparency in the organization. You may not be allowed to know what is in your file or how to resolve the issues. The whole process creates a nightmare for Brooklyn and the applicant. Brooklyn is afraid of lawsuits from the publishers and from the public if a publisher does something bad. This move helps contain liability.
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Change in Regular Pioneer application process
by Ultimate Reality inthis week a letter is being read that changes the process for the approval of regular pioneers.
in times past you had to fill out an application, submit it to the elder body (who would then add their comments), and it would be forwarded to "the branch" for approval.. this is being changed so that the elder body grants the approval instead of brooklyn or the local branch.
it looks like the lawyers are removing any and all direct contact between the rank-and-file and the gb.
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Ultimate Reality
I think the CO's will continue (so that they don't have mass layoffs--too much bad Bethel PR already) but in a new capacity that shows how much the GB loves everyone, by simplifying. It will also be interpreted as another sign the end is so close. Based on some other postings, it seems reasonable that the CO's will start visiting elder bodies on a rotation and be available for advice over the phone, but no more direct contact with the R & F. Perhaps, CO's will start appointing elders (like the apostle Paul) adding another layer to protect Brooklyn. We will only see them giving manuscript talks at assemblies, just like DO's -- no opportunuty for publishers to complain about whatever injustices are happening in the congregation.
Whatever the case, the push to separate from local congregations is strong. Now, if a Pioneer molests someone, Brooklyn cannot be held liable. I bet all existing Pioneers will have to sign new applications (agreements) this fall.